Podcast: 2007 Summit

April 27, 2007

“Learning by Doing: Bringing PLC to Life in Our Schools and Districts” featuring Richard DuFour, Rebecca DuFour, Robert Eaker, Rick Stiggins, and Jonathan Saphier.

Download the entire podcast, or click on a topic below:

1. Clarifying outcomes on the PLC journey
2. Implementing a common assessment across the system
3. Setting parameters for structuring teams
4. Hiring productive PLC teachers
5. Preparing teachers to contribute to PLC practices’ the role of universities
6. Leading upward when PLC practices are not supported
7. Who is your educational hero?

7 Responses to “Podcast: 2007 Summit”

1. eleannal Says:
   May 4, 2007 at 3:05 pm
   

   I really enjoyed listening to the piece on common assessments and have attended two PLC conferences. My school has been working with the PLC model for about 3 years now and we’re now in the process of creating/administering common assessments for the ECO’s we’ve identified. We support the premise that, no matter who the student has for a teacher, it is ensured that they recieve the same education as those students in other classes. We have five teachers per grade level and recently I noticed that a software that several of us use has a pre-set grading scale that is not consistent with what other teachers, who do their grades by hand, were using. That, in turn, brought up the point that, in grades 3, 4, and 5 there is really no consistent policy for how students are graded. Some of the differences are as follows:
   -some use a 5 point (0, 1, 2, 3, 4) grading scale similar to the one Rick DuFour presents in his PowerPoint/speech “Whatever It Takes”
   -others use the traditional 0-100% scale
   -some allow students to re-do poor work and give them the highest of the two scores
   -others, with redone work, give an average of the two scores
   -others do not allow redos
   While we are working hard to ensure that all students recieve quality instruction, regardless of teacher, we have realized that that instruction may not end up with the same grade, depending on who the teacher is. We’ve scheduled a meeting with all 3, 4, 5th grade teachers for next week to discuss current practices and decide on a uniform policy to implement next year. I was wondering if anyone has any input or research I can consult to best inform the group on how to proceed. I personally think that Mr. DuFour’s method is the best, because it alleviates the severe consequence that one “0″ can impose on an otherwise high achieveing student. I’d love to hear other thoughts! Thank you!

2. Rick, Bob, and Becky say. Says:
   May 11, 2007 at 4:01 pm
   

   We commend you for doing what learning communities do – examining your current practices and seeking out “best practice” as you work to establish fair and consistent grading practices in your school. Here are some resources you may want to explore as you and your colleagues “build shared knowledge” on best practices in this significant area of schooling:
   Developing Grading and Reporting Systems for Student Learning
   Thomas R. Guskey, Jane M. Bailey
   Grading and Reporting Student Learning Professional Inquiry Kit
   ROBERT J. MARZANO, TOM GUSKEY
   Classroom Assessment and Grading That Work
   Robert J. Marzano
   We invite others to add to this list and to share grading best practices with us.

   The critical questions your team must address are: 1) can a school committed to treating students equitably leave the question of what does a grade represent up to each individual in the building to determine on his or her own 2) what should a grade represent in our school and 3) what grading practices encourage learning and effort on the part of students and which actually discourage learning and effort?

   We believe the first question is rhetorical. It is incongruous for a profession that craves consistency, fairness, and equity in the way in which teachers are dealt and the way in which rules are applied to students, to then leave the critical question of how will we assess each student’s learning to the very different philosophies and practices of individual teachers.

   Does/should a grade represent a student’s achievement of an agreed-upon standard, his effort, his improvement, his participation, his behavior, his promptness, or something else? How will we grade a student who is meets all standards at a high levels but doesn’t turn in homework? How about a student who is polite, pleasant, and attentive to homework but does not meet a standard? Why do we give homework? Isn’t it based on the belief that homework contributes to learning: that practicing the skill and getting the specific feedback of the teacher will enhance student learning? If that is the reason for giving it, does it make sense that a student who is already highly proficient would be penalized for not doing the work? Even more to the point, does it make sense to give a student who is struggling the option of not doing the work and taking a zero? Aren’t there students who have no problem with a zero? In effect, aren’t we simply giving them the option of not doing work we believe is vital to their learning? How does that teach them responsibility? Finally, isn’t it true that giving a zero on a 100 point scale is so statistically invalid and so skewed in a negative way that it could never be justified by anyone with a cursory knowledge of statistics?

   These are not easy questions to grapple with, and we commend your staff for tackling them. It gets right to the heart of the matter of whether or not your school will be student centered and therefore committed to engaging in practices that support student learning, or teacher centered and thus committed to leaving critical questions that impact student learning to the comfort level of each adult in the building. Kudos to you for getting this important issue out on the table.

   Becky, Rick and Bob

3. in2teaching Says:
   May 19, 2007 at 4:01 pm
   

   I also would recommend the book, Fair Isn’t Always Equal by Wormeli. I think some of what is in there addresses what Drs. DuFour and Eaker bring up.

   Can’t wait to listen to the podcast! I’m currently beginning to craft my dissertation project on school-based PLCs for my Ed.D. and am taking any and all information I can get. This site is an excellent resource!

   Peter Carpenter

4. in2teaching Says:
   May 19, 2007 at 4:04 pm
   

   Fair isn’t Always Equal by Wormeli is also an excellent resource for school grading practices. The PLC’s in the schools I supervise have been studying grading practices all year.

   This site is an excellent resource! I’m beginning my dissertation work on establishing school-based PLC’s for my Ed.D. and have enjoyed the resources you all have to offer!

5. cbalthro Says:
   June 21, 2007 at 12:20 pm
   

   I recently attended the PLC Institute in New Orleans and want to say that it was one of the best conferences I have attended. The presenters’ delivery is simple language that anyone can understand.
   I have been studying the structure of our teams and one of my concerns was the inclusion of my special education teachers as well as my special teachers. Listening to the Podcast of the 2007 summit on setting parameters help me understand that not everyone needs to be on an interdisciplinary team. I really liked the vertical team idea and have made plans to discuss with our feeder schools as well as schools with the same grade configurations to see about developing teams that would be beneficial not only to the team members but to our schools. Thanks for the information.

   Charlie Balthrop

6. jons Says:
   June 1, 2009 at 10:18 pm
   

   I am a central office administrator and have grappled with the concept of zero on the grading scale for a number of years. I’m currently faced with introducing a policy that would call for an end of the practice of awarding zeros to students who fail to turn in assignments. It’s essentially F to the 6th power!
   I’m having a bit of a time getting the right buy in from staff because I think it’s tough to abandon old ways of thinking. We are trying to establish a minimum grade of 50 to be put in our egradebook system that will not allow scores lower than 50% to be entered. This will ensure that there is an equal interval between all grades and that a 0 is not 6 times the punishment of work that is poorly done.

   In our work I believe that this is only the first step toward a more comprehensive policy which would probably be to go to a straight letter grade grading scale or a 4,3,2,1,0 scale. I’ve shared Ch. 7 of Reeves’ Learning Leader with staff, Parts of Guskey’s book, Reeves YouTube Video, I’ve offered commentary in a bi monthly newsletter, discussed at a committee meeting, an administrative team meeting, introduced it to the board, and held another meeting after school today. It is evident that there will never be 100% buy-in.
   We have introduced PLCs throughout the district, and have begun planning bi-monthly meetings in grade and departmental teams to begin the creation of common formative assessments and to also analyze our quarterly summative assessments. At what point do we “just do it” with this grading idea and bring people along while we’re going through the process?

7. Rick DuFour Says:
   June 15, 2009 at 10:57 am
   

   Dear jons,

   It sounds that you have done due diligence in terms of making the case
   why zeros are statistically invalid in schools that use a 100 point
   grading scale. I’m not sure how many schools are in your district, but
   you could also take the time to meet with faculties,hear their
   concerns, and attempt to respond to them. At that point you will
   probably have to say that a school committed to helping all students
   learn can’t use grading practices that actually discourage learning
   and doesn’t reflect the actual learning of a student. Therefore the
   district is adopting a grading scale that is more valid, a more
   accurate representation of what students are actually learning, and
   more likely to encourage students to keep working and learning.

   There are probably two other bigger issues to consider. What does a
   grade represent? Is it that the student has achieved a standard, or is
   that students have completed homework? The other question is, “if the
   homework that was assigned is considered essential to the students’
   learning, should the students have the option of not doing it,
   regardless of whether or not the grade is 0 or 50? Schools are
   creating timely systems of intervention that convey the message to
   students that they don’t have the option of skipping essential work.
   On the other hand, if a student is clearly proficient, should the
   student be assigned homework to practice skills that he has already
   demonstrated he has mastered?

   Rick DuFour

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